When does 'breaking the law' not apply in F1? Is it just when it helps Ferrari win the championship!

Question

Please don't get me wrong - I used to be a Ferrari fan (from Gilles til Schuey joined!) but after the race, my husband and I were joking that any problem or appeal post-race would go Ferrari's way! If data from the FIA show fuel is illegal, surely BMW & Williams should be disqualified. However, if they had been thrown out, Hamilton would have been World Champion, not Ferrari. Hmm - so this fuel decision makes Ferrari World Champions! I wonder if the result would have been the same if the fuel had been used by McLaren and Hamilton was world champion?!! And surely, as the FIA is so keen on saying, 'breaking the law is breaking the law', the teams should have been disqualified!! Look at the official F1 website for details! formula1.com/news/headlines/2007/10/7023.html
(As an aside, does anyone else think it is odd that Raikkonen and Massa swapped positions?! I thought every driver should go for the best finishing place, and that teams were not supposed to have any form of favouritism

Answer 1

I agree creambun, there does seem to be a lot of bias towards Ferrari these days. There are a lot of people saying that Mclaren are poor losers because they plan to appeal, but if the shoe was on the other foot dont you think Ferrari would appeal, Im sure that Max Mosely would be a lot more voiciferous too. That man is supposed to be impartial but he has personally attacked Ron Dennis a number of times this season.



And what was with the delegate monitoring the Mclaren garage at Brazil, how come one wasn't placed in Ferrari's garage during the Schumacher era to ensure fair play.



But having said all that I hope that the result does stand, as Kimi has driven well this season after a poor start and a few reliability problems. In the end the best driver won as he had the most wins.



I just hope that the governing body takes a good look at themselves this season, put the rules in black and white, stick to them and not bend them for any infringement, no matter which team it involves.

Answer 2

The issue is not that the fuel is illegal, but that it is outside of the temperature range stated in the sporting regulations. The stewarts on site decided to not do anything as 1) they could not determine exactly what the ambient temperature was, which would mean stating that the cars in question were too much above or below that would be impossible, 2) that there was no evidence that anything was done intentionally, or (connected to that), 3) any advantage was gained as a result.



Breaking the rules is breaking the rules, yes... but... well, lets see: Hamilton broke the rules on Friday by using an extra set of rain tires! I suppose that it doesn't matter that it wasn't intentional and it gave him no advantage? Breaking the rules is breaking the rules - by which you seem to mean anyone breaking the rules should be thrown out and score no points?



The fuel decision did not make Kimi the world champion, Kimi winning six races ultimately did this.



As for team orders and such, it is silly that there is even any issue... they are "teams" after all! A team going for the result that is most favorable for it is what the championship has always been about. The current era of having to pretend there are no team orders is what's odd, not that there are team orders.



But, to the Kimi/Felipe switch... almost certainly exactly as planned, and done to perfection as it would be impossible for anyone to make a real issue of it being planned (other than simply knowing that's what happened).



Mclaren had a great year, though one marked with alot of drama and, ultimately, a meltdown on their part to lose it. Ferrari stayed close enough to be able to take advantage, and that's why they won.



Lastly, as to any FIA bias towards Ferrari? Not likely. Ferrari have proven more skilled than most teams at working with FIA which have allowed them to better work through possible road blocks, where other teams have simply decided to butt heads with them. But, if FIA actually cared who won and wanted to award the Championship to a Ferrari driver, they would have had every reason to strip both Mclaren drivers of all their points in the whole Stepney-gate affair (as you said, breaking the rules is breaking the rules right?). Though I think Mclaren are right in appealing... would be a shame if they won though as it would be as tainted a victory as would Kimi's if the Mclaren drivers were both thrown out. But considering sponsor investments and interests, the appeal should be carried through... though history of similar issues is not likely to change the points for any of the interested parties.

Answer 3

OK, so McLaren didn't steal information from Ferrari and got away with that thanks to Bernie Ecclestone just team points were taken off and not the drivers points, otherwise they would be out for 2007 and 2008...

Crybaby Lewis even got away with a crane lift, he didn't score any points, but if he had...

Illegalities about tyres in Brazil, and once again... ...have a guess, got away with that as well.

Several illegal starts going right and left, and never been punished.

Erratic driving behind the Safety Car, Schumacher and Alonso last season did less than he did and both got punished.

On Saturday Crybaby Lewis never got punished with the tyres Issue.

Schumacher and Coulthard had exactly the same situation in the pass, but just (obviously) the teams were punished and not the drivers.

Do the drivers choose the fuel? -Don't think so!

So if that happens how can he be (and deserve "joke") world champion if someone gets penalised should be just the teams?

Are McCheatingLaren going to appeal for all the above? -Don't think so.

Got the nerve to appeal, try to punish the drivers (BMW & Wlliams) just to try to win the only championship they can because they are thieves...

Crybaby Lewis pushed the wrong button and went neutral.

Kimi overtook Massa on the track, did the fastest lap and won the respective trophee, and won the race as well which made a total of 6, 2 more than anybody else.

KIMI is the fastest, most complete (with Alonso maybe), and the BEST. Justice has been done we have a true Champion.

Answer 4

What race did you watch?



Massa made a mistake before his 2nd stop, he lost a good 2 second there. After that corner is a flat out right till turn 1 again, that means Massa lost more time as not only he was slow through that corner, he was slow accelerating out, slow to reach top speed, he lost a hell lot of time. Kimi pump in some fast lap after massa stop, he got the position fair and square.



Secondly, team order means that team radio in on a driver to tell him to move over for the other driver. That did not happened. If a driver decided to give up his position at his will to help his own team, that's completely fine and legal.



Thirdly, just because FIA choose not to penalize BMW and Williams, it doesn't meant they are helping Ferrari. Do you wants to see Golden Boy win the championship that way? He was beaten fair and square by Kimi on track. The only person who's shallow enough to wants to win a championship in court is Ron Dennis.



And who said BMW and Williams fuel was illegal? There was just some suspicious and so FIA launch an investigation, but they cannot proof it was illegal, as there's no means of measuring the temperature of the actual fuel in the tank during the race.



Hamilton lost it, plain and simple. No need to go get other team disqualified just to win him the championship, that's a shame.

Answer 5

Probably mine is not an impartial judgement (I'm Italian) but as far as I can remember the all McLaren (the team in general and the drivers in particular) should have been punished much more heavily by FIA in many occasions.

Mc Laren, Hamilton and Alsonso shouldn't had be allowed to continue this championship because of the spy-story.

I wouldn't say FIA is doing favours to Ferrari. IMO their correct sanction should have been the total exclusion and not just the money's penalty and the cancellation from constructors ranking .Don't you agree ?.



Raikkonen overtaking on Massa has been absolutely regular. Raikkonen has stayed out longer and has done very quick laps prior pit-stopping while Massa has had problems having met with slower cars on the track. In any case all this has happened in a very "elegant" way and not like it was in Austria with Schumy / Barrichello (that I didn't like too).



In addition to this during last qualifyings Hamilton did something wrong at his exit from the pit-lane and he has been not sanctioned (nor Ferrari made a claim by knowing in advance it would have been rejected). Don't forget all other irregularities that have been spared to him (lifted by the crane, causing accident for sudden breaking beyond the SC, unproper use of tyres in Brasil's qualifyings,etc).What would have been yr reactjon if all this had happened with Ferrari and Raikkonen ??

They've deserved both titles and yes, even constructors is deserved, the McLaren cheaters must stay out...!!.

Answer 6

letting raikkonen pass after 2 rounds of pitstops is better than letting raikkonen pass right before the finish line. if you were ferrari's boss, would you let mass take away Kimi's dream?

And if McLaren used the illegal fuel, and Hamilton became champ, he still would've been champ. The stewards said that there was sufficient doubt regarding the issue, so even if it was ferrari or mclaren or whichever team, no penalties will be imposed. That is what stewards are for, not FIA personalities such as Bernie who heavily favours Lewis

Answer 7

There have always been team orders in F1. It's just that you can't blatantly do something that is considered to be a specific order like what Ferrari did to Barrichello in Austria and told him to pull over on the last corner so Michael could win the race.



It was Massa's job to promote Kimi to the race win and he knew that going into the race. Ferrari did it totally by the book and brought Massa in a couple of laps early for his last stop allowing Kimi to pull out to an advantage.

Answer 8

If you break the rules, you should get the penalty that is stated in those rules. Trouble is, they don't write down what the penalty is. They leave it up to the decretion of the stewards who are heavily influenced by Bernie. You have to enforce the rules consistantly before and during the race. Once the drivers are on the podium, it is too late, especially in the final race of the year.

Ferrari could have wrapped up the championship several races ago if Mclaren was not in possesion of Ferrari's intellectual property. The Ferraris would have been dominant.

Answer 9

What rule breaking? Wasn't it the different 2 drivers who cheated and then grassed on the group who hadn't in result been in touch. they might desire to have thrown Alonso out of F1 as he's an glaring cheat who can no longer stand being crushed via every physique. As for different communities, what approximately Saint Michael and his utilising approaches, surprisingly ramming different drivers to win the championship. Lewis is in a good automobile yet skills is making him win.

Answer 10

Like it or not the result has to stand. Championships should be decided on the track.



The problems is that this years 'cheats' McLaren have to feel hard done to, if these three cars go unpunished, whilst they cough up a huge fine and are sent to the end of the pit lane next year.



I'd love Lewis to have won, but not like this. It would be a hollow win, and about as meaningful as Ferrari's constructors title.

Answer 11

Are we forgetting that Lewis was let off for his tyre use in practice in Brazil? Or of his rule breaking behind the safety car in Fuji?



And you are saying that the FIA favors Ferrari.



Get over it, the last two races decided tha championship and Kimi was brilliant in those. He kept his nerve while Lewis lost it. Now why whine and try to dull Kimi's glory?



Massa and Kimi swapping positions? Did you see Kimi's blazing three laps after Felippe pitted, or did you miss the slower cars that were ahead of Felippe when he came out of the pits? Kimi won this race on merit, dont take it away with these feeble allegations!



When have you seen DC move over giving up track position? When he let Lewis pass, wasnt that Brit favoritsm?

Answer 12

It would be a shame if Hamilton wins in court. Besides, McLaren is a cheater. Kimi deserves it more than anyone. Just accept the fate that Kimi won and he is our new World Champion for 2007.

Answer 13

In 1995, after GP of Brazil, the cars of Schumacher (Benetton) and Coulthard (Williams) had the same problem: their fuel was illegal. FIA didn't award their points in the results list of cars (I don' know how you call it, I'm italian), but they kept their points in the results list of drivers.

So, this is a precedent: FIA couldn't judge in a different way as to this precedent.



P.S. Sorry for my bad english, but I must defend my loved Ferrari.

Answer 14

I have always thought that the FIA were biased towards Ferrari. IMO they should be made up of totally unbiased people, not men with vested interests in particular teams. you can bet your rear end that if it had been Fernando and Lewis with cold fuel they would have been DQ'd

Answer 15

The FIA world is a monarchy and makes up laws as it goes...(I'm sure you notice they change from race to race...depending on which way the wind blows (up their a**es)

The teams don't have anything 'printed' that says teammates will move out of the way, so the one with more points can win, but you and I both know, they all do it...they have since F1 started...they aren't supposed to make it obvious....(but the announcers make sure you see it.)

Answer 16

And didn't the F.I.A. decide not to pursue Ferrari with regard to allegations with regard to irregularities at the start of the season ?.This season again it would appear that the governing body are Ferrari biased .

Answer 17

see.. if i was massa i would definetly have let Kimi through... he's got the chance so let him be the champ... i'll try next season... thats the mentality... get it?



Long Live The King Of Pop (And Ferrari)

Answer 18

the best driver won the championship, they call Kimi the fastest man for a reason. maybe next year you can jump on another rookies bandwagon now that everyone knows Hamilton can't take the pressure

Answer 19

Sorry I disagree, Lewis lost it fair and square.!!!

It was a bad week for England, first the soccer then the rugby and today the F1.!!!

Answer 20

The race smells of treachery. I never dreamed Hamilton could drive so badly.

Answer 21

this ron dennis guy needs to be shot dead! he is nothing but trouble! what a total loser! i mean i wanted alonso to win but kimi won 6 races and 2 more than anyone else! and even in the end it was kimi beating massa instead of massa just giving way. so if kimi doesnt win, then this will be a disgrace to the sport and hamilton and mclaren and even britain in general. it will show that the only way brits can win something is if it is in court! i think it is bullsh.it! hamilton choked, plain and simple! he had a 17 point lead with 2 races to go ahead of kimi and still lost! so for this championship to be won by hamilton in court will be just sad for sport! british sportspeople will be the most hated of all people and if u think brits can be hated more, it can get worse! im glad kimi won even though im an alonso supporter and was desperate for him to win! but kimi is my 2nd fav! lets see wat these scum bags at mclaren are gona do now! alonso have to leave mclaren! anyone but mclaren! and anyone but hamilton!



u are the type of scum bags that are in mclaren! these idiotic pommy fools cant win a thing but can only win in court! what about hamilton getting away with murder at japan!! and what about alonso gettin penalised at hungary? alonso should be champ if it wasnt for hungary and british bias! i hate england and british people and im an aussie! im glad england choked in the soccer,rugby and now the F1. this is a great week.

Answer 22

there has always been team order's in formula one. while i don't watch it too often on tv, i remember hearing it when M. Shu was driving. he's teammate was told several times to let him around

Answer 23

You see, they could not let a fresh man win the championship. Though Hamilton is my CHAMPION!!!!!

Answer 24

there are laws for ferrari and laws for maclaren , ferrari are the biggest cheats they have the fia in their pocket

Answer 25

*yawn*